Allen A replied: "There are a few services out there that show invoice prices on new cars., carpoint.msn.com to name two. They come pretty close. The "domestics," Ford, GM, Chrysler are are more willing to show invoices in this age of giving everyone their "Employee Pricing." The "imports" are a little more dubious, but it's still possible if you simply insist and hold your breath for a few minutes. Few dealers will bring you the actual MSO or original invoice. When you are presented with an invoice it will be a copy with a portion of the amounts "whited out." If they do that turn the paper over and hold it up to a light you sould be able to see the numbers they covered up. (Old auditing trick to catch forged bills) You can not get an "invoice" price, per se, for a used car. The price a dealer pays for used cars is dependent on a host of variables the least of which include mileage, condition, source (auction or trade-in). You can get a good idea of what the dealer should have paid for a used car by consulting: nada.com, kbb.com, edmunds.com. If you are a memeber of a credit union consider using their auto buying service. They can often times get you a better deal than you can going in on your own. Especially on "imports" or used cars. Another poster mentiond "kickbacks." The correct terminology is "Holdback" and it's approximately 3-5% of the MSRP. This amount is what the manufacturer holds in reserve for the dealership to cover financing and advertising during the time the vehicle is on the dealer's floorplan. When a vehicle is sold before it hit's the lot this amount is profit for the dealer. If the vehicle sits on the dealer lot for months it's consumed in the financing and advertising. This is a source of additional discount that may be avaliable to a buyer if you're close to making a deal and only a few hundred dollars are between you and you signing the buy contract. Here is a little hint you can keep in your mind when shopping for your best deal. If your sales person whacks a grand or two from the price you still have room to negotiate. However, if it gets to the point where they are only cutting $100 or less you're about tapped out and need to either move on or sign the paper. For the most part you are always given round numbers in their offer (I.E. 10,575 or 28,225). If the sales person comes back to you with an amount to the right of the decimal you probably can't expect much more negotiation (I.E. 10,575.13 or 28,225.56). Good luck!"